The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2455 Wednesday, 31 December 2003 [1] From: Annalisa Castaldo <axc0307@mail.widener.edu> Date: Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 10:05:16 -0500 (EST) Subj: Re: SHK 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude [2] From: Abigail Quart <arq1@columbia.edu> Date: Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 11:25:01 -0500 Subj: RE: SHK 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude [3] From: Susan St. John <suzer22@earthlink.net> Date: Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 11:46:43 -0700 Subj: Re: SHK 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Annalisa Castaldo <axc0307@mail.widener.edu> Date: Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 10:05:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude Comment: Re: SHK 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude "In the case of G, I think she probably feared for her life, and felt compelled to marry Claudius. Psychologists tell us that compulsion creates a disassociated state in which we feel the need to create rationalizations to hide our own humiliation. It is obvious to me that it is compulsion which has broken G's discrimination." Leaving the larger questions of how to recognize (and/or define) beauty, and whether or not beauty is the same as goodness, I will limit myself to disagreeing with Gertrude's reasons for marrying Claudius. It seems to me that if Gertrude feared for her life and only married Claudius out of that fear, she would be more, not less likely to cling to him after her son murders Polonius, tells her outright that her new husband is a murderer and then is sent away from the court. Yet we see her lie to protect Hamlet and Gertrude is actually more active and assertive in 4 and 5 than in earlier acts. Second, it hardly makes psychological sense for Claudius to kill for love if the object of his affections is afraid of him! Third, if Gertrude fears Claudius, fears for her life, than Hamlet's character takes a nosedive. He spends the first three acts complaining about her fall from grace because of overriding lust; if she's really just afraid, he's a lot less perceptive than I think most of us want to believe. Finally, I have always found that Hamlet's glorification of his fathr and the Ghost's "Oh what a falling off" speech caused me to believe Gertrude was better off with Claudius than with Old Hamlet. Perhaps itis postmodern feminism, but both Hamlets are so absolute in their adoration of the "good Gertrude" (or at least the wonderfulness of her marriage) and in their contempt for any flaw. Yes Claudius is a murderer, but he seems to love the alive, real, flawed Gertrude, not want Annalisa Castaldo [2]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Abigail Quart <arq1@columbia.edu> Date: Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 11:25:01 -0500 Subject: 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude Comment: RE: SHK 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude "In the case of G, I think she probably feared for her life, and felt compelled to marry Claudius." - Dana Wilson Compulsion? A sudden widow in medieval times. What is to become of her? A convent? Well-endowed with narrow beds. A life of being ordered instead of ordering? But if she just pretends that one is like the other, if she merely makes that little, tiny leap into the arms of the brother, with the similar eyes and hands and smile, with the dark and shadowed passion always sidewise glancing out of his eyes......why nothing has to change. Nothing. She is still the queen. Hamlet is still the heir presumptive because this man will no more breed heirs off her than did his brother. Gertrude's fertility is a one-time wonder. So it could be considered thoughtful and unselfish to do this. It could. Motherly. After all, as king he could have any woman. He could have a young and fertile woman and then where would Hamlet be? So if she allows Claudius to have what he thinks he wants, nothing will change. No decisions will have to be made. Such an easy, comforting, tiny leap... [3]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Susan St. John <suzer22@earthlink.net> Date: Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 11:46:43 -0700 Subject: 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude Comment: Re: SHK 14.2448 Psychology of Gertrude Dana Wilson's post intrigued me when she wrote: >Hamlet holds two miniatures out for G and asks her how any mind can fail >to discriminate the beautiful from the ugly. Even if it is true that Claudius is the "ugly" to King Hamlet's "beautiful" in Hamlet's opinion, I choose to believe the old saw "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I'm no psychology expert (and I'm not sure what FA Crits are, those who give critiques of the fine arts?) but it seems obvious to me that a son would idolize his father, and it's not unreasonable to think that the son's description goes a bit overboard. When my ex was running for mayor of our town, I had to listen to a lot of adulation from my 10 year old son that rivaled Hamlet's grace on the brow, front of Jove, eye like Mars and station like Mercury. However, having no Claudius in the picture, I chose to support my son's support of his father, even though I cast my secret ballot for the incumbent. Then Dana writes: It is obvious to me that it is compulsion which has broken G's discrimination. What excuse can the rest of us make? Having played Gertrude a couple of times my excuse was this: King Hamlet was a great king, always concerned with matters of state, but ours was not a love-match...it was a political marriage, and not a very warm and loving one. Claudius on the other hand is quite passionate and exciting; an excellent lover in all the ways his brother couldn't be. Just for the record, I don't think G was in on the murder, nor do I believe she was unfaithful to King Hamlet...but after he was dead she willingly turned to the big strong man who was there to take charge, as he swept her off in a haze of newly awakened sensuality, lust and passion! Made for a fun choice in playing the role anyway... Susan St. John. _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook, editor@shaksper.net The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.
Psychology of Gertrude
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